Yet another GPL violation from the Anthrax crew (Android > kernels)

[Nuno Brito]

Hi Eric,

I don't feel like giving them an inch to operate anymore.

I noted your request at https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/5/18/19 and was
looking at is happening: folks hiding websites, blaming each other for
stealing patches, private "clubs" to access the binaries but access to
source. In my opinion this goes contrary to what Free Software was
intended in the first place. But unfortunately, this happens everyday
and way too often.

In fact, I felt it myself after releasing my first project as Free
Software just to see how competitors came up with "similar" features
very quickly, without really providing the code nor credits. In fact,
this still happens with my own software and I've learned to deal with
it.

On the other hand, this developer (despite what he writes in public)
does acknowledge that what he is doing is not correct, we just need to
consider his defensive actions: making the forum private, removing
mirrors and so on.


I doubt that a legal action would ever happen on this case, I doubt that
in the long term we (as public end-users) would ever benefit from
killing a hobby project that so many others find useful.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support closing down GPL code nor Linux.
What I mean is that everyone here might benefit from this situation if
the developer willingly becomes a compliant Free Software contributor,
rather than outlawed, hunted down and marked as "scum" (in his own
words).


Eric, what about writing an email to Mr. Stallman about this situation?

I don't mean an email calling for arms and legal action, but rather a
request to place this developer and Mr. Stallman in contact. Who knows?
Perhaps a friendly resolution can be found from this interaction.

Would be a win-win situation.


With kind regards,
Nuno Brito


---
email: ***@triplecheck.de
phone: [phone]

[SonWon]

Nuno,

You are making perfect sense. Somehow the community needs to heal and move
beyond the past. None of this is healthy and should be placed behind us.
Let's heal this wound and move forward.

Post by Nuno Brito
Hi Eric,
I don't feel like giving them an inch to operate anymore.
I noted your request at https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/5/18/19 and was
looking at is happening: folks hiding websites, blaming each other for
stealing patches, private "clubs" to access the binaries but access to
source. In my opinion this goes contrary to what Free Software was intended
in the first place. But unfortunately, this happens everyday and way too
often.
In fact, I felt it myself after releasing my first project as Free
Software just to see how competitors came up with "similar" features very
quickly, without really providing the code nor credits. In fact, this still
happens with my own software and I've learned to deal with it.
On the other hand, this developer (despite what he writes in public) does
acknowledge that what he is doing is not correct, we just need to consider
his defensive actions: making the forum private, removing mirrors and so on.
I doubt that a legal action would ever happen on this case, I doubt that
in the long term we (as public end-users) would ever benefit from killing a
hobby project that so many others find useful.
Don't get me wrong, I don't support closing down GPL code nor Linux. What
I mean is that everyone here might benefit from this situation if the
developer willingly becomes a compliant Free Software contributor, rather
than outlawed, hunted down and marked as "scum" (in his own words).
Eric, what about writing an email to Mr. Stallman about this situation?
I don't mean an email calling for arms and legal action, but rather a
request to place this developer and Mr. Stallman in contact. Who knows?
Perhaps a friendly resolution can be found from this interaction.
Would be a win-win situation.
With kind regards,
Nuno Brito
---
phone: [phone]

[Eric Appleman]

SonWon, how can any healing occur when we still have ongoing violation that
bleeds like an open wound and a violator that continues to speak of the
GPLv2 in disdainful terms while continuing to use software licensed under
it?

As things stand, Anthrax is no better than Mediatek, Hauwei, ZTE, Xiaomi,
or whatever random Chinese company you can think of that has played fast
and loose with the GPL.

This isn't the past either. These are files that were released days ago and
were pulled either because enough people complained or it was a calculated
move to have only enough people download the files and then once again
follow the pattern of disavowment (eg: "what distribution?").

Is it not enough that this was already bad enough months ago that I sought
and received advice from esteemed free software representatives?

Was it not clear enough back then when I had to paste an email from Richard
Stallman verbatim, something he'd probably never do himself and I still
feel awful about, just to prove the point that he actually said that
Anthrax could not claim any non-existent special privileges that would
exempt them from the GPL, vindicate their work, and justify their attitude?

I can't fault the FLOSS community for being apathetic towards such
small-fry violators like the Anthrax crew, but everyone must realize that
they feed off the lack of legal repercussions. So much so that they claim
without evidence that they've never been sued for violations, have been
vindicated in courts of law for unrelated software matters tenuously tied
to an HTC NDA, or are in the process of being harassed by Red Hat employees
outside of their legal team. The boldest lie of all was claiming that
gpl-violations had approved their work.

Now SonWon, explain to me how this situation can be improved at all unless
Anthrax pulls a 180 and act like everyone else who uses GPL software
(Chinese OEMs notwithstanding)?

- Eric

Post by SonWon
Nuno,
You are making perfect sense. Somehow the community needs to heal and
move beyond the past. None of this is healthy and should be placed behind
us. Let's heal this wound and move forward.

Post by Nuno Brito
Hi Eric,
I don't feel like giving them an inch to operate anymore.
I noted your request at https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/5/18/19 and was
looking at is happening: folks hiding websites, blaming each other for
stealing patches, private "clubs" to access the binaries but access to
source. In my opinion this goes contrary to what Free Software was intended
in the first place. But unfortunately, this happens everyday and way too
often.
In fact, I felt it myself after releasing my first project as Free
Software just to see how competitors came up with "similar" features very
quickly, without really providing the code nor credits. In fact, this still
happens with my own software and I've learned to deal with it.
On the other hand, this developer (despite what he writes in public) does
acknowledge that what he is doing is not correct, we just need to consider
his defensive actions: making the forum private, removing mirrors and so on.
I doubt that a legal action would ever happen on this case, I doubt that
in the long term we (as public end-users) would ever benefit from killing a
hobby project that so many others find useful.
Don't get me wrong, I don't support closing down GPL code nor Linux. What
I mean is that everyone here might benefit from this situation if the
developer willingly becomes a compliant Free Software contributor, rather
than outlawed, hunted down and marked as "scum" (in his own words).
Eric, what about writing an email to Mr. Stallman about this situation?
I don't mean an email calling for arms and legal action, but rather a
request to place this developer and Mr. Stallman in contact. Who knows?
Perhaps a friendly resolution can be found from this interaction.
Would be a win-win situation.
With kind regards,
Nuno Brito
---
phone: [phone]

[SonWon]

Eric,

It sounds like you have a personal axe to grind. No offense meant, just my
perception. There have been wrongs committed on both sides. Yes, I would
like to see Anthrax published for all to share, giving proper credit to the
author. Yes, I would like others to stop stealing and claiming ideas that
were not theirs. This continued grinding of the axe will not lead to a
better community. Why don't you try what Nuno wrote, "Eric, what about
writing an email to Mr. Stallman about this situation?

I don't mean an email calling for arms and legal action, but rather a
request to place this developer and Mr. Stallman in contact. Who knows?
Perhaps a friendly resolution can be found from this interaction.

Would be a win-win situation."

Let go of the hate this isn't doing the community any good. And perhaps we
can have a win-win situation.

<snip>
Now SonWon, explain to me how this situation can be improved at all unless
Anthrax pulls a 180 and act like everyone else who uses GPL software
(Chinese OEMs notwithstanding)?
- Eric
<snip>

[Eric Appleman]

I wrote to Richard Stallman about the whole situation months ago and I'd be
more than willing to do it again.



But to what end? Chad is probably not receptive to anything RMS would say.
When Chad made his single unapologetic post to this mailing list, he asked
people to email him if they had concerns.



http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/2013-February/003683.html



This offer for correspondence either never happened or he didn't care.



He'll keep posting files without source and he'll keep saying the source
exists if you either look harder or become his BFF, both processes entail
giving up rights under the GPL. As for me, I'm stuck. I keep downloading
these binaries yet asking for source is pointless. I'm either refused
outright because of my intentions to enforce GPL or told that every patch
can be found online. Judging by the changelogs, this should be true, but
there is no means to audit the code. There's absolutely no offer to share
any code authored by Chad himself.



It's all part of Chad's need to be a "teacher" or source of knowledge. Share
carefully selected pieces of pseudocode and private git server screenshots
to wow his followers and nothing else. Just enough to give the illusion that
he shares anything. Yet I've seen zero evidence of anyone who has actually
received source or found a valid offer for source anywhere in the binaries
within the past year. The phrases I keep hearing is "he's shared source
before" and "I wish Chad developed for this device".



Is it really lost on his followers that if the source was public then any
device could run a kernel with Anthrax code. More importantly, Chad would
get credit and have his proof-of-work formalized in git trees that would
never be taken down as he would do.



Or it would expose Chad as a total fraud who made dangerous code commits
and/or placed NDA/proprietary bits (BeatsAudio, 3D, exfat, etc) in his ROMS
and kernels.



As for whether I have an axe to grind. I don't. I'm just a very bored person
who believes in justice and the principals of free and open-source software.
There is no distance between us on the latter. If it wasn't me, it would be
someone else. And there are other people, they're just quieter about how
they execute GPL takedowns.



Finally, Sonwon, if you are going to accuse me of wrongdoing or continue to
insinuate a misguided view of how open-source or Cyanogenmod maintainerships
work, you best be ready to provide examples of such. This list will not
accept false equivalences or any sort of "same thing, both sides".



- Eric



From: SonWon [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:12 AM
To: Eric Appleman
Cc: ***@lists.gpl-violations.org
Subject: Re: Yet another GPL violation from the Anthrax crew (Android >
kernels)



Eric,



It sounds like you have a personal axe to grind. No offense meant, just my
perception. There have been wrongs committed on both sides. Yes, I would
like to see Anthrax published for all to share, giving proper credit to the
author. Yes, I would like others to stop stealing and claiming ideas that
were not theirs. This continued grinding of the axe will not lead to a
better community. Why don't you try what Nuno wrote, "Eric, what about
writing an email to Mr. Stallman about this situation?


I don't mean an email calling for arms and legal action, but rather a
request to place this developer and Mr. Stallman in contact. Who knows?
Perhaps a friendly resolution can be found from this interaction.

Would be a win-win situation."



Let go of the hate this isn't doing the community any good. And perhaps we
can have a win-win situation.





On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Eric Appleman <***@gmail.com
<mailto:***@gmail.com> > wrote:



<snip>



Now SonWon, explain to me how this situation can be improved at all unless
Anthrax pulls a 180 and act like everyone else who uses GPL software
(Chinese OEMs notwithstanding)?



- Eric



<snip>

[SonWon]

Hi Eric,

I hesitated in replying at all. However I feel your pain. It sounds like
you have already taken the advice presented here so what more do you want
from us? As Nuno stated and I might add he did so very well, "I doubt that
in the long term we (as public end-users) would ever benefit from killing a
hobby project that so many others find useful." I don't understand why you
can't let go. And I wish there was something I or this list could offer
you so you could heal. Unfortunately you will have to find your own path.
I'll not respond to a reply to this post from you on this list anymore as
I believe most everyone here would rather not hear about this anymore. I
recommend you send me a private message if you desire to discuss further to
avoid anymore clutter to the list.

All the best,
SonWon

Post by Eric Appleman
I wrote to Richard Stallman about the whole situation months ago and I'd
be more than willing to do it again.
<snip>

[Ralf Friedl]

Post by SonWon
I hesitated in replying at all. However I feel your pain. It sounds
like you have already taken the advice presented here so what more do
you want from us? As Nuno stated and I might add he did so very well,
"I doubt that in the long term we (as public end-users) would ever
benefit from killing a hobby project that so many others find useful."
I don't understand why you can't let go. And I wish there was
something I or this list could offer you so you could heal.
Unfortunately you will have to find your own path.
I wrote to Richard Stallman about the whole situation months ago
and I’d be more than willing to do it again.

Hi SonWon

What makes you (or anyone else on this list) think that bringing Richard
Stallman and the Anthrax developers together would change anything? The
views of Richard Stallman on such matters have been very consistent in
the past, so it should be no surprise that he would want the sources to
be available. Do you really think that the Anthrax developers somehow
managed to not know that and would change their behavior upon hearing
the news? That they would say they wouldn't have done that if they just
had known that Richard Stallman wouldn't approve it?

Why is it more appropriate to let the Anthrax developers distribute a
modified GPL program than it is to let someone else do it?

[Thomas Charron]

Post by Nuno Brito
Hi Eric,
I hesitated in replying at all. However I feel your pain. It sounds like
you have already taken the advice presented here so what more do you want
from us? As Nuno stated and I might add he did so very well, "I doubt
that in the long term we (as public end-users) would ever benefit from
killing a hobby project that so many others find useful." I don't
understand why you can't let go. And I wish there was something I or this
list could offer you so you could heal. Unfortunately you will have to
find your own path. I'll not respond to a reply to this post from you on
this list anymore as I believe most everyone here would rather not hear
about this anymore. I recommend you send me a private message if you
desire to discuss further to avoid anymore clutter to the list.
All the best,
SonWon

To all moderators of this list, please kick this guy off the list before
this all happens all over again.

It's ridiculous that ANY conversation regarding the legal enforcement of
the GPL *WHICH IS WHAT THIS LIST IS FOR* is allowed to use the 'But
enforcing the GPL would kill a hobby, so why bother'.

Thomas

[SonWon]

Everyone,

If you want a list that never has any other opinions than your own then yes
you should block me. If you want censorship then you should block me. I
didn't start the "Yet another GPL violation from the Anthrax crew"
discussion. I didn't even comment about it until I saw something worthy of
my time. This is why I am responding now to this call for censorship; this
is worthy of my time. I am not writing in hope I don't get censored; I
hope I can convince you to not go down this hole. If someone believes I am
not exercising freedom of speech in a responsible way I would ask them to
explain that to me. I believe I have been very civil in all my postings
even when some of the replies seemed threatening. I assumed the poster was
just angry. I don't know why some people get so upset that they want to
block open discussion when they don't like another persons opinion. Thomas
I am assuming you made this request out of anger and that you are not
really serious. If you are serious I feel sad for you. Anyway somehow
this community needs to heal and come together. I don't think legal action
is in the best interest of this community however that is just my opinion.

Also, I will not be responding to the other replies since I don't see a
need to argue over a difference of opinion. And besides I do agree with
some of you.

And I do understand your frustration and anger as I have also been the
victim of my work being stolen. I even helped the person in the beginning
believing he was going to help the community, well that didn't happen so I
moved on. I didn't see any need for legal action. I just let go and moved
on.

I'll wait and hope this is posted to the list so open discussions can
continue.

All the best,
SonWon

<snip>
To all moderators of this list, please kick this guy off the list before
this all happens all over again.
It's ridiculous that ANY conversation regarding the legal enforcement of
the GPL *WHICH IS WHAT THIS LIST IS FOR* is allowed to use the 'But
enforcing the GPL would kill a hobby, so why bother'.
your own
Thomas

[Simon Stapleton]

SonWon

It’s nothing to do with opinions, as has been pointed out. It’s to do with established fact. Chad has been, and is currently, violating the GPL. It doesn’t matter if you personally can’t be fagged with hassling him about it, he’s still violating the GPL.

Chad is being “picked on” because he is specifically releasing something based on software that is licensed under terms that say “you can’t do that”. He has no license to do what he is doing. He has no /right/ to do what he is doing. It’s nothing to do with “getting over it”, or “heaing”, it’s to do with the black and white certainty that what Chad is doing is a license violation. It’s plain wrong.

Unfortunately, my own contributions don’t feature in anything Chad is doing, or he’d be getting a sternly worded cease and desist order from my friendly lawyers. Frankly, I’m tempted to try and get something committed to the kernel just to be able to do so.

Obviously, you’re free to believe anything you like, and I certainly wouldn’t want you to get blocked from the list.

“comedy stimulates all the like and ridiculous by using vulgar persons and taking pleasure from their defects.”

Simon

[SonWon]

This reply goes to everyone who doesn't think there are opinions floating
around in this list.

Thank you for the civil replies. I realize that the majority on this list
holds an opinion that Chad is in violation of the GPL. It appears to me
there is more than one way to understand the meaning of the GPL. And while
I have read everyone's opinions I have to respectfully disagree with the
majority as I see this leaning in different ways. I do see some merit in
both sides however I am unconvinced that there is or is not a violation.
And I am not one to go with the majority since to often I have seen that
the majority was wrong. I could quote some historic examples if needed. I
do respect everyone's opinions and look forward to the day when we can all
agree. I'll also refrain from posting just to argue as that will get us
nowhere.

All the best,
SonWon

[Eric Appleman]

The GPL does not allow the flexibility in opinion the way you think it does.
The license is very clear. You either violate or you follow it.



Your behavior on this list is unbecoming for a number of reasons and I am
glad you are taking a permanent leave.



1. Failing to understand the meaning of the GPL

2. Wearing that Anthrax Tux logo as a symbol of pride

3. Using an alias even after we had to dox you to figure out your stake
in this whole mess

4. Top posting your comments



Have a nice day.



- Eric



From: legal-***@lists.gpl-violations.org
[mailto:legal-***@lists.gpl-violations.org] On Behalf Of SonWon
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 3:35 PM
To: Simon Stapleton; Dagobert Michelsen
Cc: ***@lists.gpl-violations.org
Subject: Re: Yet another GPL violation from the Anthrax crew (Android >
kernels)



This reply goes to everyone who doesn't think there are opinions floating
around in this list.



Thank you for the civil replies. I realize that the majority on this list
holds an opinion that Chad is in violation of the GPL. It appears to me
there is more than one way to understand the meaning of the GPL. And while
I have read everyone's opinions I have to respectfully disagree with the
majority as I see this leaning in different ways. I do see some merit in
both sides however I am unconvinced that there is or is not a violation.
And I am not one to go with the majority since to often I have seen that the
majority was wrong. I could quote some historic examples if needed. I do
respect everyone's opinions and look forward to the day when we can all
agree. I'll also refrain from posting just to argue as that will get us
nowhere.


All the best,

SonWon

[SonWon]

Quotes are all from Eric.

"I am glad you are taking a permanent leave" Who said I was taking a
permanent leave?

"Failing to understand the meaning of the GPL" At least I am not trying to
twist the meaning to serve my own campaign.

"Wearing that Anthrax Tux logo as a symbol of pride" what logo?

"Using an alias even after we had to dox you to figure out your stake in
this whole mess" I have used SonWon for over 10 years so I don't think
you have your facts straight.

"Top posting your comments" Is this better? I really don't want my post to
be hard to read.

FYI, to everyone else, I apologize for posting this to the list, however
since Eric A. made it public I thought it only fair. Now Eric, please
reply directly to me and stop this clutter in the list.

All the best,
~SonWon

Post by Eric Appleman
The GPL does not allow the flexibility in opinion the way you think it
does. The license is very clear. You either violate or you follow it.
Your behavior on this list is unbecoming for a number of reasons and I am
glad you are taking a permanent leave.
1. Failing to understand the meaning of the GPL
2. Wearing that Anthrax Tux logo as a symbol of pride
3. Using an alias even after we had to dox you to figure out your
stake in this whole mess
4. Top posting your comments
Have a nice day.
- Eric
*Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2014 3:35 PM
*To:* Simon Stapleton; Dagobert Michelsen
*Subject:* Re: Yet another GPL violation from the Anthrax crew (Android >
kernels)
This reply goes to everyone who doesn't think there are opinions floating
around in this list.
Thank you for the civil replies. I realize that the majority on this list
holds an opinion that Chad is in violation of the GPL. It appears to me
there is more than one way to understand the meaning of the GPL. And while
I have read everyone's opinions I have to respectfully disagree with the
majority as I see this leaning in different ways. I do see some merit in
both sides however I am unconvinced that there is or is not a violation.
And I am not one to go with the majority since to often I have seen that
the majority was wrong. I could quote some historic examples if needed. I
do respect everyone's opinions and look forward to the day when we can all
agree. I'll also refrain from posting just to argue as that will get us
nowhere.
All the best,
SonWon

[Neil Brown]

please reply directly ... and stop this clutter in the list

Thanks, SonWon.

All: as requested here, please, let’s keep future discussion to GPL violations / Free and open source law.

Best wishes

Neil

__________

Neil Brown
***@neilzone.co.uk | http://neilzone.co.uk

[Cole Johnson]

 I'll not respond to a reply to this post from you on this list anymore as I believe most everyone here would rather not hear about this anymore.

​If everyone on this list were like this, this list wouldn't be here. Sure, we're all sick off hearing about Chad "Goodman", but that doesn't mean his "crimes" can continue.

​If you live in America, I invite you to turn on the news and watch regularly. Every so often, you hear of a shooting (especially at schools). Quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing about them. But that doesn't mean I don't talk about them.


​
If what you are saying we should do here on this list (let it be) happened in the real world (i.e. people stopped caring about shootings and people dying), then people would stop enforcing it. No police means more crime.





​Pretend I'm a cop:

​> Me: Oh, a hit-and-run. I'm sick of those. How about you?> Partner: Yep.

Me: Then let's just ignore it. If someone else wants to catch him, they can.

Does that sound like a good cop? No. Cops are supposed to enforce laws. Now, replace the cop with you or nearly anyone else on this list; a Kernel contributor, and the hit-and-run with Chad Goodman and Anthrax kernels. Do you see it NOW?




Without an enforcer of the rules [GPL], who's to stop the bad guys [Anthrax and XDA] from committing their crimes [not releasing source]?

/Chad steals some of your cookies/
You: Mom! Chad stole some of my cookies!
Mom: Chad, is that true?
Chad: Yes, but if I didn't, Linus would've stolen some of mine!
You: no I wouldn't have! I would've asked for a bite, not the whole thing!
Mom: Chad, give it back.
Chad: No.
Mom: Oh well, I can't do much more. Linus, just ignore him. Let him do what he wants.

Again, does that sound RIGHT? Of course not! But that's what you are encouraging. The mom [this list] is supposed to help in enforcing the rules [GPL], but Chad says no. What does the mom do? Say to just ignore Chad while he steals and then eats [keeping source away from you] your cookie [source code]. Chad claims that if he shares, we'll take his cookie and eat it all [kanging] when in reality, we just want a bite [portion of the code].




I'll admit the analogies could have been better, but they're the best I could think of at this time.




We can't let Chad and Anthrax get away with what they are doing. If we just give up enforcing it on them, they'll win. There is no win-win here with these guys as someone mentioned earlier. It's either lose-win or win-lose. We either lose and they win, or we win and they lose.







----

Cole Johnson
-- E-mail: ***@gmail.com
-- Twitter: @5urd

Hexware, LLC
-- Twitter: @HexwareLLC